Claire Quit Launching

Today on the podcast I’m talking to my good friend and client, Claire Pelletreau, of the Get Paid podcast!

In addition to being a badass podcast host, Claire is the expert in Facebook + Instagram ads! She runs ads for course creators, and teaches people like you and me to sell more of our courses through paid ads!

Claire joined the Accelerator specifically to learn how to get her evergreen funnel up and running. 6 weeks after putting her funnel live...it had already earned her 10k in revenue!

And this was with really low website traffic.

In this episode, we go in-depth about conversion rates, how launches and evergreen works together, and how Claire promotes her evergreen funnel to her audience.

Listen in now!

Resources mentioned:

✅The Accelerator: https://mariahcoz.com/accelerator 

Follow Mariah on other platforms:

🌟Instagram: https://instagram.com/mariahpcoz 

🌟Facebook: https://facebook.com/mariahcozofficial 

🌟Pinterest: https://pinterest.com/mariahcoz 

More from Mariah:

➡️ Apply for my done-together group coaching program, the Accelerator: https://mariahcoz.com/accelerator 

➡️ Watch my FREE masterclass, The Simple Course Launch Framework: https://mariahcoz.com/launch 

➡️ Create a Digital Product The Quick + Easy Way: Free Workshop: https://mariahcoz.com/digital 

➡️ Download The Ultimate Webinar Checklist: https://www.webinarrockstar.co/

➡️NEW Free Training: How to Sell More Courses Every Day / Week / Month With An Evergreen Funnel: https://mariahcoz.com/evergreen 


Episode Transcript

Mariah Coz:
Hey Claire. I'm so excited to have you here on the podcast. Thank you so much for talking to us today. So, obviously you and I have known each other for a while. You are a client of ours in The Accelerator, you're also a dear friend of mine. But I want to give you a chance to just introduce yourself, tell everyone who's listening who you are, what you do, what you sell, what your courses are, all that good stuff.

Claire Pells:
All right. Yeah. So, I do Facebook and Instagram ads all day, every day. That's pretty much my entire business. I run ads for a couple of clients, but mostly my business makes money with courses. I have a Facebook an Instagram ads fundamental course, which is really the A to Z, what you need to run ads. That's called Absolute FB Ads. And then I also have a course, it's more of a course plus mentorship program for people who are running ads for other people, Very Meta. Yeah. And I've been doing this since I guess 2014, yeah, that's when I launched my first course. And I did that pretty quickly after I got started.

Mariah Coz:
So was your first course the same course that you sell now?

Claire Pells:
Yep. It started-

Mariah Coz:
That's awesome.

Claire Pells:
... yeah, it was... you know, I used to work for Laura Roeder who was the CEO of LKR Social Media. And then she switched over to Meet Edgar. So I really learned from her about the value of info products. And so, I always knew that I wanted to have a course. So I didn't waste any time in setting up an opt-in. Basically when I launched the site it had an opt-in, I was starting to put together the course.

Mariah Coz:
That's awesome. I like that focus. I also think it's cool to point out that you've been selling the same course for over four years now. And between... around four years now. and I was trying to tell people like, it's possible, when you hear, "Oh, create this asset once," and then literally you have it, and you can sell it for years and years. That's really cool to see that in practice. Because there's so many people who will create a new course, and then it fizzles out and they stop selling it and shut it down.

Mariah Coz:
And then they're onto the next thing. And it's just this constant cycle of creating new courses and shutting down old one. And it seems so messy. And the fact that you've been running the same course for years, and years, and years is both a testament to the power of the online course business model in general. But also to how awesome that content is, that years later people are still talking about it, telling their friends about it and buying it, which is awesome.

Claire Pells:
The thing is though, it was completely messy in the beginning.

Mariah Coz:
Oh yeah.

Claire Pells:
I did exactly what I shouldn't have done, which was I launched it and then I was like, "Okay, now what else?" There wasn't even a sales page for you to buy it if you found it. You know? I had shut that down. I basically made all the course greater mistakes for a number of years. Until finally I was like, "Uh, but this thing is really good. And so long as I just keep updating it per Facebook's gazillion changes, then I'm good." And that's what I've done.

Mariah Coz:
Totally. I mean, that's the other thing too. Even though its like, you can sell the same course, and I think there's something to be said for building up name brand awareness around your courses and stuff over the years. But yeah, it's going to need updating. Sometimes we just go back and overhaul courses entirely, which is every couple years maybe it needs that.

Claire Pells:
Yeah, same.

Mariah Coz:
That's awesome. Okay. So you and I, I think the first time we met in real life was at Craft and Commerce. Was it last year?

Claire Pells:
No, it was whatever the year was-

Mariah Coz:
Was it two years ago?

Claire Pells:
It was 2017. I like to call us lifers, the people who have gone to that conference-

Mariah Coz:
Been to all of them.

Claire Pells:
... every time. Yeah.

Mariah Coz:
Yes. So, we've been to all of them. And we continue to go so we can hang out together there. And so I gave a presentation and you said that you sent me a message, like a couple weeks later, maybe few months later. I don't even remember. You sent me a message and you were like, "Hey, I took that stuff that you said in that free presentation, and I did this launch and it went like the best launch ever." And I was like, "That's amazing." Can you tell us a little bit about what you did and how that... we're going to talk about how you took that course launch, and then of course, this is like not your first launch. And then how you decided to go evergreen with it. And obviously you've had your evergreen funnel up and running for a couple months and it's been rocking and rolling. But I'm kind of curious how you found what I was doing and tried out some of those strategies for yourself.

Claire Pells:
Yeah, for sure. To be honest Mariah, I didn't really know what you did in detail until I saw that presentation.

Mariah Coz:
Really?

Claire Pells:
I saw two presentations of yours... yeah, because I think right after I met you was when that time where you sort of went under the radar for a while. So like, I tried to find new content of yours, and I didn't-

Mariah Coz:
Oh, yeah and there was no new content.

Claire Pells:
It was the year of evergreen. But like, I didn't figure out quite how the... anyway. So you did two presentations that I got to see. One was about some evergreen stuff, and I was lie, "Oh, wait, that is so much simpler, so much simpler than I ever could have imagined." So I put that in the back of my head. Because I had a launch coming up. And the other presentation you did was basically exactly what you teach in The Accelerator. You know, the entire launch strategy.

Mariah Coz:
The whole email-

Claire Pells:
I mean, you gave it all away, yeah, the videos, the emails, it was like here's what each day is, here's the calendar. And I took serious notes. And so, I just like implemented that. I added a little bit more, like a few more Facebook Lives in the ramp-up because if I had just started I felt, and maybe I'm totally wrong, but I felt that if I had just started your strategy a week before I wanted to open the cart, you would have been like, "Who? What?"

Mariah Coz:
Right. You need that pre-launch-

Claire Pells:
Right. Because you didn't have time to get into the pre-launch stuff.

Mariah Coz:
Right.

Claire Pells:
So, I came up with my own pre-launch stuff. Yep. Layering, it was good. And then I did the launch with your entire strategy. And that was for a course that was 5K, this was for like the mentorship program.

Mariah Coz:
Cool.

Claire Pells:
And I enrolled 15 students, right? Like, from a teeny tiny segment of my list.

Mariah Coz:
I was going to ask. Because this is your course that's not for your bigger... you have two distinct segments of your audience.

Claire Pells:
Kind of. So, like I have the people who want to DIY their ads, right? Or they just want to figure out how to get their first campaign up and running, they're getting on my list to learn about that. And then some people are also coming to learn from me, but not because they want to run their own ads. It's because they're running ads for their client, or they want to. And they're like, "Oh, well, what do I do?" But yeah, that's a really small segment of my list. And I think in that launch I only had like 180 people view the sales page, right?

Mariah Coz:
What?

Claire Pells:
And I got 15 people to convert.

Mariah Coz:
On a $5000 course.

Claire Pells:
Yeah.

Mariah Coz:
That's awesome. Actually, that's like a higher ticket course than I realized it was. Because a lot of times I'm like, "Oh, this type of launch works good for courses up to like $3000." But you made it work for a higher ticket, which is so cool.

Claire Pells:
Because, I did sales calls. Like I tweaked-

Mariah Coz:
Oh, got you.

Claire Pells:
... your thing to then do sales calls. And that was a great learning experience for me. I learned how to sell, I won't do that again. I learned that like, I know longer need to do that. Basically because of what I've learned from you. And since then I've launched that course in a different way. No sales calls, very Mariah Coz, and I did the same thing. Like, the same number of people,-

Mariah Coz:
That's awesome.

Claire Pells:
... the same number of views. My lists just have not grown.

Mariah Coz:
Well, the fact that you could get the same... I don't think a lot of people realize this, that when you re-launch you really have to base your new projections and goals on just the amount of new people who you've added to that particular segment of your list. You can't just say, "Oh well, I'm launching again to the same amount of people. So I'm going to make the same amount or double." It's like, no, if you have doubled the amount of people on your list you're looking at just the same as you did last time. Because it's based on new people. But the fact that you were able to make that same amount of sales from the same audience twice in a row is really awesome, that's like rare.

Claire Pells:
Well, I think what happened, and I mean, I say this to my clients all the time, when I'm running their ads, you know, there's going to be a percentage of people who come in who are just not ready to buy in that first round. But that doesn't mean that it's like lost, sunken costs if you will. Tracking it is impossible. But you kind of do have to have that faith. Like, okay, these subscribers are there. And in future launches or in a future evergreen funnel that I launch, they're going to come in probably.

Mariah Coz:
Totally. Yeah, that's part of why I really liked seeing our clients with their evergreen funnels, and how their funnels are interacting with their launches. It's been really cool in the last few months to see our clients, how their funnels feed their next live launch. And how many of their existing... like how many people who went through the funnel and weren't ready to buy, and didn't purchase during their evergreen funnel experience. but then six months later buy during the live launch. And how the funnel is really creating this hot pool of leads who are then chopping at the bit to buy when you do open the cart again. Which so many people are like, "This evergreen funnel is going to cannibalize my launches." And I'm like, "No, no, no, it just creates this hyper-hot lead pool that then is just like, 'Oh my gosh I am so sad I didn't buy before, now I'm so excited.'"

Claire Pells:
Yeah. I totally remember, one of my friends in The Accelerator recently. She totally thought that. She was like, "Look, it has cannibalized my sales, it was the evergreen," as if it were not a good thing that she had just made all this money on evergreen. And then yeah, in the end she pulled it, it came together. Yeah, for sure.

Mariah Coz:
It's definitely an interesting approach how they work together. Okay, so let's talk about evergreen.

Claire Pells:
Oh, I'd love to.

Mariah Coz:
I'm very excited to talk about this with you, because you set up your evergreen funnel. You told me this before we hopped on. Your evergreen funnel made $10,000 in the first six weeks of you having it up and running, which is amazing. You have relatively small traffic. I think that was with like maybe the first 600 people or something going through the funnel, I can't remember exactly.

Claire Pells:
Yeah, it was low numbers, real low.

Mariah Coz:
Not like you have a million people coming into your email list every day. And then as of right now your funnel converts at around 2.5% on a week to week basis which is amazing. So, I want to talk about evergreen with you. Because I also know that getting to this point wasn't easy. You've had your business for years and years. And for a lot of us, going evergreen takes longer than it has to, and you had to build up to this point. So, very curious, when you're thinking about going evergreen, before we even get to the actual creation of the funnel, what were you most afraid of was going to happen when you created the evergreen funnel? And maybe even talk like, why, is that the reason why you joined The Accelerator? Was it for something else? Was it specifically for that?

Claire Pells:
So, God, my relationship with evergreen over the years... like, I have kept writing in my beginning of the year goals that I wanted to put my course on evergreen since like 2017, right? And a year would go by, and another year went by. And it was just like, "Ah, what is the problem here?" So something that I've always slightly hated you for Mariah, is that webinars are really easy for you, right?

Mariah Coz:
I know.

Claire Pells:
Webinars have never been easy for me. They've been my kryptonite. And I just like... I knew that I... not that I needed to do them, I don't really prescribe to that, but I could see the power of them. Of that like getting, being live with me, just actually me teaching... because I'm a really good teacher, I'll just be straight here. But then it gets to the pitch, I get so awkward. It is-

Mariah Coz:
Why? What do you think it is?

Claire Pells:
Well, I don't know. It's been for many years, this like lack of confidence in my own course. And it took... I think what happened was, in 2017 I raised the price, I went from charging like 300 bucks for it to almost 1000. And I said, "Hey guys, this price has to go up." Because I was attracting a lot of people who were not in a position to use Facebook ads.

Mariah Coz:
Totally.

Claire Pells:
I mean, I don't know if that's what's happening with you with the evergreen engine. It's like, some people are like, "Oh, great, this could be the answer."

Mariah Coz:
Oh yeah. I've had to turn away people from evergreen engines, because they get too excited about the... they're like, "Oh, I don't even have a course and I've never launched. And I'm ready for my funnel." And I'm like, "You need something to sell first." So I think people get over-excited. And that can happen with Facebook ads too, where it's like, "Oh, I just started my business. I've never sold anything organically. I think I should start with Facebook ads." And it's like, "Oh, you just need to try your offer first organically."

Claire Pells:
Yeah, exactly. I mean, you need to prove that product market fit. And so, at that price point it wasn't enough of a barrier really for people. So it's like, "All right, the price is going up." I made a ridiculous number of sales. And then I didn't even like... I don't have notifications on for the testimonial type form that I have, or like the feedback. So at one point when I was getting ready to do a webinar later in the year, like, "All right, I got to sell more of this." I went in there, and I was like, "Oh my God, people love this course." I didn't even realize. People are obsessed. So okay, at that point I was like, "All right."

Mariah Coz:
Was it that external, seeing all those messages, gave you that confidence in the product itself?

Claire Pells:
Yeah.

Mariah Coz:
And until then you're kind of wondering like, "Is this any good?"

Claire Pells:
Yes. Yes. Because I just had this huge influx of customers, and before it was really this trickle, right?

Mariah Coz:
Yep.

Claire Pells:
so some people would... I mean, the people in the Facebook group would say nice things and all. But there's some thing about our stupid lizard brains that make us not pay attention to the good things as much as the negatives, right?

Mariah Coz:
Oh my God, yeah. Like, I'll be honest, until we were doing the evergreen engines like pre stuff, and we just shot an email to a couple people, and we're like, "Hey, how's your funnel doing?" And I was like... I'm like... until that happened... it's like we have 20 people who I just know, their funnel is up and running, and it's not like they are posting about it. But I didn't realize that there's another 30 people who just have never said anything and just quietly crushing it. And I was like, "Oh," and I didn't... honestly, I was like, "I just don't know if you don't tell me." There was one girl that was like, "Oh yeah, it's made $54,000 since I turned it on three months ago," like just total passive, and it's very MVP.

Mariah Coz:
And I was like, "This is..." So I was like, "I wouldn't know if you don't tell me. So I'm glad I asked." Because then I was like, "Wow," it's just kind of like you focus so much on those two people who didn't do the work and didn't do anything. And then you're like, "Oh wait, everyone does like this."

Claire Pells:
Totally. Those two people.

Mariah Coz:
Those two people. They really like just eat at us as course graders.

Claire Pells:
I started working with a client who had a multimillion dollar business. And I was running her ads. And she was like, "Oh yeah, I started my ads with your course." "What?" Okay. So yeah, there are these things that we just, we don't know. So, at one point I kind of got over my webinar issue when I actually took your course, Webinar Rockstar. I had kind of like a last minute Hail Mary, I need to not suck on this webinar again. Because it was for my higher priced program. It was like, this was going to be a big chunk of revenue, and it mattered. So I bought it, I didn't even take the course Mariah. I just used your webinar template. Like the keynote template. And I was like, "Oh, these are the pieces I need."

Claire Pells:
And since then, every webinar that I have done has really converted very highly. But, I still hate launches. I still hate the webinar. Even though now I know what I need to do, I don't enjoy doing it. For some reason. Like, I like the teaching, but there's something about... like by the time I get to the pitch I've already been like on for a while. And I'm a person that can be on for a long time, but it's tiring. That's another reason why I love your method for recording evergreen webinars, just an FYI. Very smart now.

Mariah Coz:
And it's totally like, when you get to that place where you're like, "I've done this webinar, and like I get it. And I also don't need to keep doing it live." Like you're just at that place where it's like, "It's fine, like I can do it live, I can bring the energy. I can do that. I know what to do and what to say." But if you've done it a couple times it's like, "Okay, let's move on." Like, you can just record it. And then we don't need to do it again. And then you don't have any of that mindset stuff around like, "Oh, I got to schedule that webinar. Oh, what if I don't feel like it that day? What if I'm tired. What if my kid is sick?"

Mariah Coz:
Just like all that stuff goes away when you go evergreen. But I totally... but I think it's so important that you mastered, you were like, "This has to not suck anymore." So you mastered the pitch. Because even if you go to prerecord it, if your pitch sucks, then your pitch sucks forever. So you don't want that.

Claire Pells:
Right. And yeah, I'm glad that I mastered those things live. You know, I had to practice. I had to get that feedback. And I really did. I remember this one webinar Mariah, that maybe you actually teach this in the course, but since I haven't really fully gone through it. But I just remember using some of the questions to kind of warm up the audience. And I started like... there was one person who kept engaging. I said her name I don't know how many times during the webinar. Because I was like, this is for you, of course she converted. It was just, I don't know, it felt-

Mariah Coz:
Making it friendly. And sort of like other people do webinars and they're like, "You can type in the chat but you can't see anyone else's chat. And I'm never going to acknowledge that you exist." And it's like, "Okay. Thanks." But yeah, we do it in a fun way.

Claire Pells:
Yeah. Definitely. So-

Mariah Coz:
So, were you... oh no, you go.

Claire Pells:
No, I'm just trying to think, what happened. In 2018, so that was at the very beginning of 2018 when I got Webinar Rockstar. And then later on in 2018 I actually did buy somebody else's evergreen course, and it was trash.

Mariah Coz:
Oh, I'm sorry.

Claire Pells:
From someone I really respect. Yeah.

Mariah Coz:
I'm not going to...

Claire Pells:
No, I'm not going to tell you.

Mariah Coz:
No, no, I'm not... I just mean like, I hate to be like, oh, but like, I don't know. I understand. I think it's sad that so many people just do evergreen wrong, and then it gives everyone this sort of bad impression of what it is, and how it works and what it can be. And so like, when other people are teaching it in a way that either doesn't feel good or just doesn't work, or just is done done poorly, it sucks. Because I then have to go and convince them that there's a better way.

Claire Pells:
Yeah. I mean, I think trash is harsh. Basically the takeaway was, use a deadline. Because that... apparently this company had tested all these different things. And they said the only thing that matters is to use a deadline, so do that and don't do anything else almost. Like, send some emails, but make there... And I was just like, there was no like, okay, this day do this, this day... no, it was this... it was full of data, it was interesting but it was not useful. So, then I saw you speak again at Craft and Commerce, ConvertKit conference. And then I was like, "All right, I got that launch done. Mariah really knows what she's talking about. I need to pay someone to make me do this."

Claire Pells:
Like, I literally gave you my money for the accountability. Because I could not let another full year go by. And so I did exactly what you said to do. I tried out a couple different things. I know we went back and forth on some of the little pieces of the funnel. But I really think I went all in on the main funnel that is like based on a webinar.

Mariah Coz:
The webinar funnel.

Claire Pells:
I had seen the power of that, and I also like to teach. So, I did it. And I remember recording it. And I hated every minute of recording it. And I did the entire thing including pitch in 47 minutes. And I was like, "You know what?"

Mariah Coz:
Wow. Okay, mine are like 90 minutes, so I need help editing them now.

Claire Pells:
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I was like-

Mariah Coz:
You were like running through it?

Claire Pells:
I'm basically running through it out of fear. And I thought, "I will have to re-record this, but at least I'm putting something up." I haven't touched a thing.

Mariah Coz:
I love that. It's like, your like, "This recording sucks, but it's better than nothing." And then it's up there doing it's thing, and you don't have to go back and make it perfect.

Claire Pells:
Exactly. Denise talks [crosstalk 00:28:59] about that in Chillpreneur. I forget exactly what she says. Like, some of my stuff, I always said I'm going to go back and make it better. But at least she had something out and it's there. I'm so glad it's there.

Mariah Coz:
I know. Really with anything, I'm like, "Oh, I could go back, make this better, do it perfect," blah, blah, blah. And then it's like, but I always have to remind myself, but it's getting results just as it is today, like imagine, what if you didn't have to go back and make it perfect? I think that's really cool because... Especially for those of you who are listening, there's a podcast episode that went live a couple, maybe just like a week or two ago by the time we're recording this. I don't know when this is going to go live. But I'll link to it. And it's all about how to get into the mindset of recording your evergreen webinar. And that conversation that I referenced in that episode is conversation I had with Claire. Even though, I don't know if I named you in the episode.

Mariah Coz:
I was like, "I had a conversation with a friend this week," but that was actually this conversation that you and I had in Boise, at Craft and Commerce, this most recent one, which was all about excited I get to record them, and how it feels to be in a really fun energetic place when you're going to record your evergreen webinar. But, that's not to say that quick and dirty gets it done.

Claire Pells:
Totally. Really [crosstalk 00:30:21]. I mean, I know I felt good about the content of the slides, because I've really gotten that down. And I understood about... you know, I took out all the stuff that I didn't need from prior webinars, and it just felt... and I think that's a lot... I just didn't feel like I needed to sell the thing that hard. I wasn't doing a 30 minute pitch because it was just kind of a no-brainer. I mean, I guess that might not be the feeling of everyone going through it. But, I don't know.

Mariah Coz:
That doesn't matter. What matters is that you have that feeling going into recording area, that you knew that when you created that webinar, and when you prepared it to be going evergreen, you were like, "This is a just a fucking no-brainer." I think that's when we do our best job and show up in the best energy, and how to do the best sales is when you just truly are, "Guys if you don't go for this, like this is just a no-brainer." It's such a great value for everything you're getting, you know what I mean? And then just knowing that deeply, how valuable it is, what you share.

Claire Pells:
But you know what I think was the thing that most surprised me about evergreen engines, because that's really what I focused on inside The Accelerator? I wrote all the emails for that entire sequence in one day. And I have never been able to write promotional emails with ease, ever, ever, ever. And so it just kind of blew me away that I could just follow the instructions, put everything in. I mean, some people poo-poo like a formula, dude I joined the accelerator [crosstalk 00:32:03] for the formula. Because it does work when you apply your own personality and your own skillset, blah, blah, blah.

Mariah Coz:
Totally. I think the formula is like the foundation. And honestly, I just tell people like, "Don't try to break the rules until you've mastered the..." you know what I mean? Like totally go and master the funnel, do it exactly how you should, and then go and tweak it if you want to. But don't totally turn it on it's head until you've actually done it successfully already. And I think that those... It's like once you've mastered it, then you have some flexibility to go in and change things. But I'm all about the templates. And I don't care what people say, templates are the fucking... like, they're a lifesaver for me.

Mariah Coz:
They're a lifesaver for all of our clients. Like, why wouldn't you just plug and play. We have this awesome... The template you're talking about is our webinar funnel email sequence template, and so it's pre-written emails, but you go in and you put your own spin on them, tell your own... It's all about how to tell your own story, but it's like the framework for how to tell the story of when you made the mistake. And how to tell the story of the milestones you hit. And how to tell the story of what was holding you back before you did this and blah, blah, blah. And so it's all that kind of like plug and play, which I think is honestly just staring at a blank page is what I never want my clients to have to do.

Claire Pells:
It was the most helpful thing. I mean, I think-

Mariah Coz:
I'm so glad.

Claire Pells:
... because I already had the webinar format. I pretty much had that and I tweaked it a little bit. But, man, I got to say like, I keep wishing this... I could go back to 2016. Like, when I was about to have my daughter, and business was hard back then. This just like, you're like the first person who's shown me like really business, and making course sales is not hard. And you know, people talk shit about passive income all the time. There is nothing more passive than this. I mean yeah, I'm still serving my students every single day when they come into my Facebook group and all that, it's not like I'm never working. But, I don't have to get on live to do a webinar, or write a bunch of more emails, they're done.

Mariah Coz:
They're done. I think that's really important too is that, you just shift your energy from this, "Where are these sales going to come from? What webinar promotion or flash sale do I have to do this month? What about my next launch? I hope it goes well." The energy shifts from that to, "Oh, now I just have more energy to work with my clients, and to serve them in the Facebook group. And I can actually answer their questions faster because I'm hanging out in there." And it's not that you're not... It's like you can serve better because you're not so involved in the day-to-day selling part.

Mariah Coz:
I think that's what most of our clients like about it, is like, your job becomes serving your students as best you can, and getting people into the top of the funnel by sharing free content, like your podcast or your freebies, or however you like to share content, Instagram, YouTube, it doesn't really matter. But those are your jobs. Because the selling part has been automated. So that's one less thing you have to worry about. And I think it's so funny too. I appreciate you saying that about passive income. Because it does get a bad rap, and I don't use that phrase a lot, because I'm almost just like, "Oh, people are just going to tune out when they hear that." But it is possible if you do the right systems, and if you are willing to do the maintenance on it too.

Claire Pells:
I had a February that was kind of similar to your, what was it, 2017? Where you were sort of off the radar, not-

Mariah Coz:
2018.

Claire Pells:
... okay, not working very much.

Mariah Coz:
2018 was just, oh, 2017 I just didn't do anything because of depression. But then 2018 we just did all evergreen.

Claire Pells:
Okay. So then, I had a really bad first quarter for many reasons, health, emotional. But, the only thing I could get out of bed to do was stuff related to my podcast, because I was relaunching my podcast. I thought, "Okay, I'll throw in some ads into each podcast episode for my funnel entry points." February was my best funnel month. Not even the month that I emailed my list, like, "Hey, this is here, you can launch this in by now." It was when old podcast listeners started listening again, three days later, they were like, "Oh, Claire? I didn't even know Claire did Facebook ads, because she doesn't really talk about it in her podcast. Let me opt into this, and let me buy at the most ridiculous conversion rate." Because the podcast listeners, just like already have that you know, they already trust me basically.

Mariah Coz:
Yeah. They have that connection to you. So your best sort of converting segment of your audience is people who have listened to your podcast?

Claire Pells:
Oh yes. By far.

Mariah Coz:
That's awesome. That's awesome because, in my experience, I've seen this now... And we're similar in that we took big hiatuses from our podcast and kind of brought them back from the dead. But, if you like... We never saw great email list growth with our podcast. It wasn't like, "Oh, we're getting so many hundreds of new email subscribers every day from the podcast." That's not it. But, I do think it sends the most targeted people and the most excited and connected people who are like, they know you, they like you, they listen to you every week. It's like more quality over quantity I guess in terms of sending people who already love you and listen to you to your evergreen funnels. And then they have a really high conversion rate.

Claire Pells:
Definitely. But then I also want like all podcasters to have an evergreen funnel, and that they advertise on their podcast. And then, this is what I'm doing, I'm spending money every week promoting my podcast with Facebook and Instagram ads, right? Primarily Instagram, because that's what Facebook has used. And so then, like, I can't even track this about whether or not people are actually listening from the ads. But what I can see is people opting into the funnel from the ads. And the cost per conversion is ridiculously high. Like, 20, $50 opt-ins. And those ads all break even. Or they make me money.

Mariah Coz:
They're buying a $1200 course or whatever, yeah.

Claire Pells:
Right. And so, I am-

Mariah Coz:
That's awesome.

Claire Pells:
... promoting the podcast for free, and growing it, and getting customers. But like really because of the ad costs and the high cost per lead, it ends up breaking even. But I am thrilled about that.

Mariah Coz:
And if our listeners want to find out how to run ads for themselves to sell their own courses, they should sign up for your course.

Claire Pells:
Yeah. And see my evergreen funnel.

Mariah Coz:
And link to that. Yeah, totally. No, we'll link to that in the show notes too. And I'll as you again to plug in at the end of the podcast. But I definitely want, if you guys are listening, you want to learn how to do this and how to sell your courses using Facebook ads, Claire's course is absolutely the one I recommend to learn how to run Facebook ads. Specifically for how to get more course sales. So, not like, "Oh, we run a ecommerce," this that the other, whatever. Just, it's specifically for course creators which is why I like it the most. Yeah, that's awesome. So, I have to ask you, were there any mindset issues that came up for you before you were creating your funnel, as you were kind of like... any resistance that came up while you were creating it, or before you even jumped into the actual like creating the assets and putting it together? Did you have mindset stuff that crept up for you?

Claire Pells:
Well, it definitely took me longer than I wanted to create it, even when I had the instructions. Just like this general resistance. I mean, so I followed the instructions from that other course, right? And I put it together. And it was fine. Like, that's unfortunately is for that teeny segment of my what was I thinking? I set up an evergreen funnel first for the smallest segment of my list anyway. Still it has a low conversion rate. And so I spent time doing that, and it didn't work. So I was like, "Okay, I am just going to just kind of trust in The Accelerator and put my investment here, even though I'm not sure it's going to work. But at least I will have tried."

Claire Pells:
And so yeah, there was definitely resistance around that. But even once... man, once it was going, and the sales were coming in every email. Every email I saw was like, "Yeah, they're probably going to refund, they are probably going to refund." Dude, the only refund I've had has been somebody who was just too excited and bought like... When they really weren't in a position... Like, it wasn't even for their kind of business. That's been the only refund from the funnel.

Mariah Coz:
That's actually amazing. Because I know you told me you were like, "What if they bought by mistake," or like, "What if this was too easy, I didn't really work for this sale, I wasn't hustling for it, it just came in while I was doing something else, and it must not be real," right? Like you're like, "It's going to be a refund. I shouldn't count on it. Maybe it was just a fluke." I think a lot of people feel like that too. Like our friend Steph in The Accelerator, she shared recently that she was like, "I just..." Her first month of her... the first 20 days she put her funnel on it made almost $12,000 in the first 20 days.

Mariah Coz:
And she's like, "I just can't stop thinking like, this is just a one time thing. It's never going to keep working this well, like this can't be real, what is happening?" You know what I mean? And it's like totally... it's crazy how our brains just want it to be as hard and a struggle. Our brains will try to do everything to make it hard.

Claire Pells:
I totally remember seeing, you know, I guess maybe I started following you on Instagram after last year's Craft and Commerce. So I started seeing the way you shared all these wins. And I was like, "Oh, that's not going to be me. That's not going to be me. That can't be me." Like, I'm just not the person that gets to have that life. I'm like totally selling the dream like MLM style now. This has been definitely, the business end life changing.

Mariah Coz:
Oh, thank you.

Claire Pells:
No, thank you.

Mariah Coz:
I appreciate that. Yeah, but I think that's very true. I think people look at that kind of thing for whatever reason. They're like, "Yeah, I've seen the 200 testimonials, but yeah, probably not going to work for me." "Yeah, no, I'll be the one exception," or like, "Just not going to work for me," or like, for whatever reason, whether it's worthiness, or, "Well I'm not good enough, or that person must have something that I don't, or their course maybe is better, or they have a cooler sales page." Or like whatever you're thinking to yourself. There's no reason that can't be you in the screenshot.

Claire Pells:
Something, I mean, just kind of talking about this mindset thing. I just want to point out that I joined The Accelerator, within two months I had my webinar funnel up and running. And I basically peaced out for a while, right? I was just like, "I got what I needed. My investment has been paid for and it's just going to keep on making sales." But then, I don't know why, I started coming back to the calls, and we just started having these talks about mindset, that I really valued... I didn't know that this was sort of part of it to be honest. Like, I didn't know that I could ask you these kinds of questions, or we would end up having these conversations. But like, learning more about what a high earning course business was like has been like eye opening.

Mariah Coz:
Well, your comment... so for everyone who is listening, Claire brings the best questions to the coaching calls. And I'm always like, "Oh, this is the best, I'm so excited to talk about this." They're really deep, they're really good about these sort of bigger questions like you said. And you were also the person... you always spark my social media content, where I'm like, "I'll just take this question that Claire asked me today, and I'll turn into a blog post and a podcast, and Instagram and everything." So, you brought up this entire conversation that I feel like is going to be such a big part of things that I talk about now more often is this idea of like, is it hard running a seven figure course business?

Mariah Coz:
And I was like, "No. It's like way easier than running a six figure course business." And you were like, "But, I feel like I'd have to work so much harder. I feel like it's going to be more hours. I feel like it's going to be more stress, more stuff, all these things." And I was like, "That is fascinating to me. I had no idea that... " So there's so many people. And then it just blew up. Where I put this on Instagram and people were like, "Oh my gosh, yeah. I don't even want to have a million dollar course business. Like, I don't even think I would want that. I would actively run away from that." And I just, so many people are terrified of it. And I think it's because they think it's really mysterious. I'm like, you know, happy to talk about the day-to-day logistics of it are not any harder than anything else.

Mariah Coz:
If anything you work a lot less because you can afford to have a team, and you have people working with you. And you can hire people. And your business at that level is so much more systematized and streamlined. And like, you've made every... like, at that point it's like, "We've made everything. We're not like... we don't need to make new things from scratch." So it's just like a lot easier. But, you really got me kind of thinking about how people maybe don't realize that, and they have all sorts of stories and ideas about what it's going to be like to have a bigger course business. And that that could be... it's going to be really stressful and hard, and like more work.

Claire Pells:
Yeah, I totally thought that. And you know, you really kind of walked me through a little bit of your day-to-day and the things you just don't do anymore. And right now I'm in the process of hiring for a much more involved team member that I've had before. And I don't even have thar person yet, and I'm already acting like I don't have very much to do in my business.

Mariah Coz:
I love that.

Claire Pells:
And as a result, I don't have that much to do. Okay, I could fill my time, I could fill it. I could create, I could keep creating. And I think that was my plan. But then you said, you were like, "Dude, you have the sales mechanism, you need more traffic." And so I just started looking at ways to do that in kind of a not crazy way. Like something that wasn't going to be 20 hours of me creating every single week.

Mariah Coz:
Totally. Because it's almost like... I was going to ask you. So the things you do to drive traffic to your funnel, and you and I talked recently about what's the sort of like lowest hanging fruit. It might not be like creating a new YouTube video every week, or getting active on these other social media channels. So you're using your podcast, and you have ads in your podcast episode that drive people to the masterclass, which is the funnel. And then, what else have you done, or do you like to do to kind of drive traffic to it on a regular basis?

Claire Pells:
Well, so I'm also reaching out to some referral partners. Because that has been one of the biggest growth things. Basically I had Brooke Castillo on my podcast not too long ago.

Mariah Coz:
Best episode if you guys haven't listened to it. Like, just so you guys know, there's like two podcasts that I listen to, and one of them is Claire's, best podcast if you're not already listening go subscribe, it's so, so good. And that episode was just like fucking amazing.

Claire Pells:
The great thing about it is that she basically talked about me like I was the best thing since sliced bread. So that brought in just like tons of people, that brought in more of her people. And so we have an arrangement. She just sends me all her people. And I'm like, actually you said to me, "Why don't you just find more people like that?"

Mariah Coz:
You just need a couple more Brookes.

Claire Pells:
Yeah. Yep. I'm looking at you Mariah. But I-

Mariah Coz:
I could be your next Brooke.

Claire Pells:
Okay. So, I'm definitely working on that. I'm also still, because I'm a total nerd, working on my own Facebook ads to make this a funnel that breaks even. The reason I struggle with that is because the cost to advertise about Facebook ads to these audiences is astronomical. So it costs me a lot more. Well, you know, because it's basically your same audience. Just really high cost per leads. Whereas like my clients, one of my clients, she gets two $3 leads and her $200 funnel makes money. Because of the conversion rates and the cost per lead. But I just... even though that's money that I'm spending in order to test that, I like it. I mean, I got to say, I think it makes a lot more sense to spend money on ads than spend time posting on social media all the time when I think [crosstalk 00:49:27]

Mariah Coz:
I agree.

Claire Pells:
... reach.

Mariah Coz:
I think that's like a... eventually anyone who's listening, your business will just hit a threshold where it's like, "I just have more money than time." And even if you're not like... it doesn't really matter, it doesn't necessarily happen at an exact dollar amount, but it just happens when you're like, "Yeah, I just kind of don't want to be posting all the time. I just want to have the algorithms sending my message out to new people." That's when you kind of go that way. But what I think is really interesting, and I know I'm going to have you back on the podcast to talk more about like Facebook ads in depth.

Mariah Coz:
But I always think it's cool that you as a Facebook ads manager, I think people on the outside might think, "Oh, if I just had a Facebook ads manager, if I just had Facebook ads running to my funnel, then it's just like I'll just have it made in the shade, and I don't have to do anything." But you are a Facebook ads manager, you can obviously do it for yourself. But it's still something that you have to strategize about, you have to maintain it. And it's not like infinitely... the ads part isn't infinitely scalable depending on your audience. Like, I know we've had the same thing, where we do Pinterest and YouTube ads is more of our focus. Because on Facebook it's just like, yeah, it just kind of shits out after a bit.

Claire Pells:
Yeah. I mean, I have this whole spreadsheet that's supposed to be like how I'm going to scale that mentorship program I have. And I have to ... no, decrease the conversion rate as I increase my costs. Like, in my predictions. Because I know that's the law of shitty click-throughs. Eventually people just stop converting. And then yeah, with paid traffic. I definitely have some issue about admitting. Like, I'm a Facebook ad person and I can't make a Facebook ad funnel convert. But then I'm like, but the numbers are all in my favor, it is the cost. And that I can't control.

Mariah Coz:
And it's not that, it's like you said, it's certain industries, certain niches. Like it's just harder and harder. And it's harder and harder for everyone. And this idea, like you and I were talking, it's like this idea of maybe three or four years ago people were converting to absolute cold traffic through their funnel and breaking even, and making a profit. But that's harder, and harder, and harder. Yes I'm sure there's still people who are like, "Oh I've done it." That's cool. But the majority of us are not just like, "Oh wow, now we have 10X ROI on cold leads like we did four years ago," or whatever.

Claire Pells:
Yeah. I mean, I could talk about that all day long.

Mariah Coz:
Just have to diversify. Yeah. We're going to... well, let's do another episode where we talk all about that.

Claire Pells:
Great.

Mariah Coz:
I'm excited.

Claire Pells:
Great. I'm going to do that test I told you about. I'm like acting all shady now. No, I'm going to do some new tests this week, because then maybe I can share those on that next episode.

Mariah Coz:
That would be awesome. Yeah, Claire's been talking about some really cool content ideas for things she's going to work... kind of like different content pieces for Facebook ads. And it's going to be really cool. I'm excited to see how that goes. I'll test it out with you so we can compare.

Claire Pells:
Cool.

Mariah Coz:
That would be awesome. So, what would you want other people to know about going evergreen. Like, if some one was like, "Eh, I don't know." Like I got, right now we're in the... like people are going through the evergreen engines funnel, and I'm getting emails from people being like, "I just don't think it's going to... like, I think I'd be better off just launching twice a year and not going evergreen." And I'm like, "Really? Why not both?" Like... but there's so many things that people ask me every day. Where they're like, "I don't know. It seems hard, or seems like it's not going to work for me."

Mariah Coz:
Or like, I had actually had someone be like, "I love you, I'm in all of your other courses. And I still just don't think that this can work for me." Like it just seems, like you said, like almost just seeing all the testimonials of being like, I can't imagine that being me, you know? And so what would you tell someone who maybe has some of those feelings, or hasn't gone evergreen yet? What do they need to know?

Claire Pells:
You know, there's something about what you just said that made me think... and this is not really my area of expertise, but it made me think that that person doesn't feel like they're deserving of sales all the time. And I think I felt that way as well. But I masked it as, I don't have the right formula, or I don't have the right... like, whatever I do is going to fail. I just, for some reason I said that. And it doesn't make any sense. I mean, and sometimes your thoughts just don't make any sense. But, I mean, I'm just somebody that can't launch and be a good wife, and be a good mother and be a good friend. If you love launching, keep launching. You know, I have a bunch of friends in the Incubator, or in the Incubator, sorry, that's mine, in The Accelerator that love to launch.

Claire Pells:
And they just keep doing it with great success even though they're on evergreen. But you know, launches just, unless you're like aggressively list building between launches, I feel like your missing out on the fact that, you know, somebody finds you and they need your solution. Now, not in six months when you launch. Give them the option. Like, that's what I think you said in the ConvertKit mastermind we were in. Like, why are you making them wait? And I was like, "I don't know. I don't know why I'm making them wait. Because I don't ever plan on launching again, so how are they going to ever get in?"

Mariah Coz:
Yeah. That's why I like yelling, "Do you hate money? Do you hate money?" Like why are you letting people... people are like, "I just found you, I'm ready to buy your stuff. I need help." And you're like, "No." And it's like you said. Especially... and I love... this is what I love about evergreen is that, if you still love launching or you want to launch once or twice a year, go for it. Having evergreen is only going to help, right? Like, there's no reason you can't have $100,000 launch once a year, and also have evergreen sales coming in every day. Why not both? And, that funnel is going to feed your launches.

Mariah Coz:
It's going to all work together in this ecosystem that we teach. But, if you decide that you never want to launch again, that is an option also. And I think that's the most beautiful thing about it, is just choices. Just like, you don't have to launch ever again. You might choose to launch two years from now. We went a whole 18 months without doing any sort of promotion. At this point in our business if we do a promotion, it's actually just a... like it's just a deployed automation. You know what I mean? Like, it's all automated and it's just deployed. So it's not, it really relieves that need to do it at all.

Mariah Coz:
And then if you do do it, it's just like a fun choice that you get to make. And it's just like gravy, because you're not relying on it for everything. But I love to hear like, what your sort of plans are. It's like, you don't have plans to launch all the time too. You're just going to focus on evergreen which I think is ideal. And just getting more traffic, getting new affiliate partners, getting people, getting more people to the podcast which then they come over to your funnel and they're ready to convert. So it's like, you know what to do to get more people in.

Claire Pells:
Yeah. I mean, I don't really think that launching is a sustainable business model in the long run, you know? And so, it's also just not sustainable for me in the short term. Because I do still have days where a kid gets sick, or I'm sick, or whatever. And I just can't show up to write that email or to get on that webinar. I just canceled a partner webinar because of health stuff. But, that's not hurting, fortunately it's not hurting me economically.

Mariah Coz:
Yeah, totally. You have to have that choice. Like I said, I think a couple weeks ago, you should be able to take a break without that breaking your business. And this is the best way I know how to do that, is to go evergreen. Yeah. I really appreciate that too. Because it's not like, you know, especially if people are listening, you're like, "Well, I don't have this huge email list or anything." Like, you've been able to do this and bring in sustainable, thousands and thousands of dollars a month sustainably with a relatively small amount of email subscribers coming in organically, and obviously you're running your own ads and stuff like that, which is kind of separate as you're trying to break even on there. But it's just kind of cool that it's like, you can do this with... you don't have to be insert super famous huge Instagram star in order to make it work.

Claire Pells:
Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to do any... not that you don't have to do anything, you do need to drive traffic. But all the things that... yeah, like this is just taking off the pressure of like, "I need to do this. I need to do that. This is what my business is going to hinge on." I mean, right now, my business hinges on ConvertKit, and [crosstalk 00:58:54] funnel. Like if they go down, then I have a problem.

Mariah Coz:
Right.

Claire Pells:
But otherwise, like anything else can happen. I can choose what to work on, I can choose to have a 10 hour week if I need to. So long as I'm serving my clients, which this gives me so much more. You know what, the funnel has actually given me the ability to take on fewer clients. And so I just get to have like... do the mental gymnastics that I like to do with Facebook ads with very select clients, instead of like, "Oh, let me just get another one to keep paying the bills," because I was there. I was about to take on another client recently. And then I just got more traffic with the podcast. And I was like, "Oh, na."

Mariah Coz:
I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, I think that's really awesome. Especially in terms of like, it just doesn't... the hardest thing, and I know that we're both kind of trying to figure this out too, is like I think you said that you have a lot more space now. And it's like you were kind of tempted to fill that up with creating new stuff. And like, "Well, what do I need to do, whether it's traffic, or I'll create an new channel," and all this stuff. But, it's almost the hardest part, is figuring out who you are when you're not hustling, and like who are you when you're not worried about that next launch, or that next promotion, or planning that next partner webinar. And like what do you do with more time and space? And a lot of us, "workaholics" are going to be trying to fill it up.

Mariah Coz:
And the hardest thing for people like you and I Claire, and I know even like last week you were taking some days off and hanging out. And it's hard at first to be like, "Wait, I just don't have to work today. Is that okay? Am I missing something?" I keep looking in my agenda and being like, "Did I forget something? I think I just don't have anything to do today." It's so weird.

Claire Pells:
It's like the most privileged problem to have. But yeah, it's definitely, it's my new reality.

Mariah Coz:
It's the new normal.

Claire Pells:
And so I'm just trying to... yeah, my new normal. And I'm just like trying to figure out what that looks like and feels like. And then just let the funnel keep doing it's thing.

Mariah Coz:
And choosing low hanging fruit and choosing the... I think the best way... Denise talks about it too, is like the path of least resistance and how that's okay. And for you it's like, "I don't need to be creating all this new content, or starting the series," or blah, blah, blah. It's like, "One more referral partner would double my business." You know? And then they're promoting it, that's easy. What's the sort of path of the lowest hanging fruit that you can go for? And that's okay. There's no shame in that. There's no reason for it to not be easy, which is really hard for us to all understand, when we're so used to things not being easy for so long.

Claire Pells:
Yeah. I'm really glad that this is what you're talking about now. And we were able to explore these things inside The Accelerator, because yeah, they're the conversations that I think happen in mastermind groups and higher level things with the people who are maybe all experiencing it. But to be able to kind of learn from somebody running a seven figure course business, and just say, "Oh, okay. This is okay, this is allowed."

Mariah Coz:
Yeah. Like, you're not missing out because you're working less, that's what's supposed to happen. It's all going as it should. That's amazing. So as we wrap it up, I'm going to ask you, what do you think... let me rephrase this. Starting off with the wrong adverb. What would you tell someone who is thinking about joining The Accelerator, was on the fence, wasn't sure, maybe is listening right now and hasn't filled out their application? If that's you, what are you waiting for? Claire, what would you tell some one who's thinking about joining The Accelerator?

Claire Pells:
Hm. Oh gosh. I mean, what are you waiting for? Like, that's... I mean, and I understand. It was the biggest investment I had made at the time into my business for sure. But, you know, Becca Tracy was like, "Claire, you're going to make the money back immediately." And I was like, "Yeah, but what if I..." For some reason it still didn't make sense. Like, I did the... I thought like, okay, and if I do how will feel? I don't know. It still just felt like this big risk. But I did exactly what she said, that happened. And then, I don't know... the thing is like, I came into it as somebody who maybe just needed evergreen engines. Because I didn't need really the course in launch help. But, I got to tell you, I think I probably would have bought evergreen engines and then maybe let it sit there.

Claire Pells:
Like, I needed that accountability. And not everyone does. I love these people who buy courses and finish them, my students. Love you. It's not me. So if that's really what you need, if you need like... and I think I've also gotten a lot of inspiration just from the other people in The Accelerator who are doing these incredible things. And I've been like, "Why am I just resting on my laurels over here, you know?" Sometimes it's good to rest, but other times it's like, "Yo, what's up? Let's talk you and I," you know? They're doing cool things and I get to feed off of that energy. So if you're thinking about joining The Accelerator and you like that group aspect, the energy, and also that accountability, don't delay. Fill out the application.

Mariah Coz:
A little bit. Yeah, seriously. The group is really fucking fun guys, if you're looking for a good group of awesome course creators who are like, just like Claire said, just doing cool shit all the time, and constantly sharing their strategies and what they're trying, and all these new ideas. And it's like super... it's just obviously it's super active. It's designed to be... The fact that it's a next level investment is what makes it so effective as a program. I'm convinced that just like the more we charge, the better results people get. And that's what what we've seen is like, when people make that investment... It's funny, you've used the work accountability a couple times.

Mariah Coz:
And I don't like the word accountability. And I don't tell people that anything we do is going to give them accountability. Because my whole thing is like, "I'm not your fucking mom, so don't ask me to hold you accountable. I'm not going to hold your hand." I'm not going to like...

Claire Pells:
She's not guys.

Mariah Coz:
I'm not. Be like, "Oh, but come on." I'm not going to drag you up the hill, you know what I mean? If you're kicking and screaming, I'm going to be like, "Have your tantrum, come back when you're ready to do the work." But I really think that like, it's designed, between the investment and the time limit of being in the program. If those two things combined with the results that you can get if you do the work, if those three things don't convince you to do something, then I can't help you. You know if it's like between the investment and the time limit, and the fact that if you do the work, this is what's waiting for you on the other side, then that's it.

Mariah Coz:
And so that's what we... I really think that the program, being a bigger investment and being structured the way that it's structured, creates accountability without us having to be like, "You get an accountability buddy, and you do that..." And like all this stupid crap that people add to their programs that doesn't really help.

Claire Pells:
Yeah. No, that's the thing. Like, nobody has checked in on me. Nobody has ever been like, "Um, so, when are you coming out with another funnel?" No, it's just like, I want to come out with another funnel before my time is up, just because I want to be like, "Yo, look, look what I did that you guys helped me do." I don't know why, it's just that one of these... it's that group I think. That group is like, "Look what I did."

Mariah Coz:
That's the best.

Claire Pells:
And everyone's super supportive, but it motivates you for sure.

Mariah Coz:
Oh yeah, totally. It's amazing. Okay. Well, this was incredible. Where can people go to sign up for your masterclass, all about the different Facebook ads that they should be running for their course business?

Claire Pells:
Yeah. So, I feel really strongly that there are only about five ads that you should be worrying about. You can even worry about one at a time if you're going to deal with paid traffic to sell courses. So, I have a masterclass that's like the five ad formula of selling online course on autopilot. So you can get that at Clairepells.com/5ads. The number 5, the word ads all together, 5ads.

Mariah Coz:
Amazing. Thank you so much. And guys, seriously, I highly recommend the training. And then once your done with the training, I highly recommend that you sign up for the course. Because Claire knows what she's talking about. This is... if you're at that point where you're doing launches and you want to figure out Facebook ads for yourself, I really think that like, don't go learn it from someone who does in all different things, or they only have experience in ecommerce or some other different business model. You want to stick to the specific, to course creators. Yeah. So can't recommend it highly enough.

Mariah Coz:
And thank you so much Claire for coming on here, for sharing so transparently today, for just being open to having these conversations from like funnels, all the way mindset and everything in between. You're like seriously my favorite person. And I recommend everyone go listen to Claire's podcast. Is it called like Get Paid podcast, or just get paid?

Claire Pells:
That's what it's called. Get Paid podcast. But if you just search, get paid Claire's, no not Claire's with a S, Claire in any of your apps.

Mariah Coz:
There's actually two of her, and they sound and look exactly the same.

Claire Pells:
Can you imagine if there were. No, Get Paid Claire, search that and you're going to find it. I ask people how much money they make and how they do it. So...

Mariah Coz:
Its so good. It's truly... I'm about to go get on the treadmill and listen to another episode.

Claire Pells:
Wow, look at you on the treadmill.

Mariah Coz:
Oh, yeah. I just need to like move around every once in a while. So, thank you so much Claire, this was amazing that you were sharing all of this about your whole process, building your evergreen funnel, rocking and rolling it and every thing that's happened since then. And I will talk to you soon.

Claire Pells:
Awesome. Thanks Mariah.